Vintage Dirt Bike Q & A

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:15 am
Posts: 4
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
I am considering installing an '81 CR450 motor in a '78-'80 250 chassis. Has anyone done this? Is it possible?
I would like to produce an open class bike reminiscent of the late 70s factory Honda works bikes. These bikes were so cool looking! Any help, suggestions or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ken Gray


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:46 am
Posts: 215
Location: Alpine, UT
I haven't done what you want to do, but would be very interested in seeing if it works. Something you may want to consider is using an 83 CR480 motor. It also is air cooled and is a better motor. It also has the right side counter sprocket like the 78-80 CR250's.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:15 am
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Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Nathan, thanks for suggesting the '83 motor. I realized after I posted this question that there was another recent posting on this subject. Sorry for the duplication. Creating this hybrid seems like such a great idea. I am surprised that no one has pursued it. Some of my best MX memories are from seeing the works Honda RC500 in action at Sears Point during the Trans Am series. I am now looking around for the donor chassis and motor. I really hope someone can give me more advice on fitting the engine into the '79 CR250 chassis. thanks, Ken


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:36 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Arizona
Hi Ken,

Over the past few years, I've been asked about building such a bike and have always taken the easy way out and replied that I've never been interested in building one, which is true. However, I have good friend (that collects and restores only Yamaha's) who has thrived on asking me about building "that" dual shock/air cooled/open class/CR on every given chance for the past 7 or 8 years. The first time he asked me about building such a bike, I told him that I had no interest in building one and would never do so. A few weeks later, he asked me again or made reference too "that bike" which kind of got under my skin at that time...I guess that is when became persistent about asking me what it would take and how far along I was with "that" project. Knowing that I had the parts and the means to build one, my friend Ted found it intriguing to ask me (hypothetically) what parts could be used to build one. I can honestly say that I have actually spent the time to see what it would take (in general) to build such a bike, just so I could tell my friend that this is what needs to be done...but I'm never building one. To build/restore one of these in a professional manor, will not be easy or quick.

With a '81 CR450R motor (or with the '82 or '83 CR480 motors) one would want to use an '80 CR250R frame. All three of these CR motors use center port exhaust, a '78/'79 frame would need to be cut at the down tube and cradle, then split/fabricated into a double down tube. Using the '81 motor would allow a little more clearance area between the pipe, frame and tank then the '82 or '83 motor. Though I'm not all that familiar with the '82 and '83 CR480's, it's well known that they were better then the '81 CR450 motor (which had clutch problems and a rather strange power band). However, when it comes to parts, they are all 1 year motors; the '81 and '82 were 4 speeds while the '83 was a 5 speed. The '82 and '83 480 motors share the same crank, but aside from that, they are more different then alike. Internally, the '82 CR480R motor is closer to the '81 CR450R, and the '83 CR480R motor is closer to the '81/'82 CR250R's. Clear as mud? Also, you should keep in mind that because of their popularity, the '83 motors (and parts for them) are very sought after and somewhat harder to come by.

Regardless of which motor used, the following parts would need to be customized and/or made: front engine mounts, rear engine mount/swingarm spacer, lower engine mount spacers, exhaust pipe, air box, kick starter shaft and/or arm joint (with use of an '81 motor) and rear wheel spacers. Depending on how the air box is made, an alternate intake manifold may need to be located as well. The CDI and coil for the year of motor chosen would also have to be located and adapted to the '80 CR250R frame (the '81 and '82 CR450/480R coils are the same, but each CDI for the '81/'82/'83 open CR's is different).

If someone just wanted to have an open class CR to ride in the dual shock/air cooled class, I'd suggest they find an '83 CR480R and modify it into a dual shock machine; similar to what Johnny Slomp of Holland has done with his bike (look at ad #2787 on Nathan's swap meet page...nice work Mr. Slomp). That could be done a lot easier (and probably with less money) then fitting the 450/480R motor into the '80 CR250R frame; or cutting the engine cradle from an '83 CR480R frame and fitting it to a '80 CR250R frame.

One other option would be to locate one of those rare RC400/450 motors and adapt it to the respective CR chassis. This would be my personal choice if I were to ever build such a bike.

Take care,
Robert :wink:


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 Post subject: 450 engine in 250 frame
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:24 am 
I finished putting an 1981 450 engine in a 1979 250 frame. I couldn't use the 1980 because it was a double down tube. I ended up cutting the bottom section of the 1981 frame off underneath the foot pegs and then where it attaches to the up tubes and then welding this to the upper section of the 79 frame. Everything lines up perfect. It has been a gas to ride except that the 450 engine has durability problems. It also has a lot of vibration and with the 450 motor the swingarm really needs to be lengthened an inch. It jumps very well and handles good too.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:20 pm
Posts: 906
Location: San Clemente, CA
Visitors to the Vintage Iron World Championships at Glen Helen last week would have seen just such a bike. It was a 1980 CR250R frame with a 1981 Pro-link rear end converted to twin shock use. The space where the linkage would have gone was welded up and the lower shock mounts had been fabricated. Motor was a 1983 CR480R with a customized 1980 air box. The engine mounts were all fabricated and the coil had been moved to the frame. Had a complete 1983 front-end on it. Meant to look like an RC400 or RC500 of Brad Lackey's time and it was very very clean. It was up for sale, but there were no takers and therefore it was raced on Sunday at the 2-stroke championships.

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Michael Stiles
1979 Honda CR250R Elsinore | 2006 Husqvarna SM510R | 2007 Service Honda CR500R-AF


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