Vintage Dirt Bike Q & A

Just as the title says, the bike will shift thru all the gears when not running, fire the bike and it wont shift into second or past second, I have split the cases and no signs of any wear, no bent shift dogs, no broken teeth, everything seem to be functioning properly. I am stuck, I guess my question is,,,,,, does anyone know someone I could send this tranny too? I sent it off about a 1 - 1/2 year ago with $500 clams to one of the best builders in the country so I was told, ( referred by this forum) and finally got it back from the dude semi tore apart, nothing fixed, and minus the cash.

Really would like a fast turnaround on it if anyone has any ideas, bike has been setting as a roller for some time now.

Any help appreciated!!!!!!!

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C Bly

74 CR 250M
74 CRF 175
75 XR 75
77 ProFab Aberg HL500
97 Montesa Cota 315R
2003 CR500 AF
2004 CRF 450

I would bet the problem is in the shift mechanism. Have you looked at the shift shaft closely? The fingers that turn the shift drums sometimes crack. Could be something wrong with the shift drum. Email me at mailto:elsinorestuff@qwest.net Maybe I can figure it out if you are willing to send it out.

If you do send this out to Elsinorestuff and decide you want parts, let me know. I have some spare transmission stuff.

But really, I hate to think of you being tortured by having a running but unridable Elsinore. Here are a couple ideas to consider:

If the spinning of the running motor is loading the transmission, that load may be pushing the shafts/gears to one side or the other. If there is a shim missing, could that cause enough misalignment to make shifting fail? I'd wonder if it gets hard to shift up when not-running if you apply pressure to the ends of the gear shafts in various combinations. Go to one of the online parts lookup sites and check out their transmission schematics. Maybe you'll find a little washer missing and we'll both be surprised.

Does your shift lever get full travel? Does it come anywhere near the sidecover? Is the shift shaft bent or twisted or binding? Is the nuetral stop stuck in a groove worn too deep in the shift drum detent plate? Is there excess wear, or a missing bushing in the shift shaft mechanism? Here I am thinking that the shift mechanism barely pushes the shift drum far enough, and the shift locator just barely gets to the tip of the neutral groove, and that the running motor's vibration let's it fall back into the neutral slot instead of going over the hump to the gear stop. Maybe you could take off the clutch cover and take a good long look at how far that arm-claw piece pushes the drum around. If it barely clears the hump, then you can chase it backward to find the limitation.

Or, just send it Elsinorestuff and enjoy the results.

Get 'er done for spring!
Jon

THanks Jon, I have the engine already tore down, and the only visable wear that I can see is the shift arm and its a small indent on the opposite side that actually makes contact with the shift drum, go figure? I really dont see how it would affect the shifting, with the cases split and the shift rod and shaft in place the tranny will shift thru all the gears, and to my knowledge nothing I can see not functioning properly. I believe I will send it to Elsinore stuff. Gonna try to get hold of him this eavening. I never dreamed that this bike would be a 2 yr & going project. Since I started this bike I have restored 2 TT500's an HL500, and built a CR500AF, but the sweet taste of the elsinore hopefully is just around the corner.

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C Bly

74 CR 250M
74 CRF 175
75 XR 75
77 ProFab Aberg HL500
97 Montesa Cota 315R
2003 CR500 AF
2004 CRF 450

Just read your post and was struck with the fact that the bike won't shift into
second gear. If the motor was still together, I would tell you to try selecting
third gear then start the bike and try to shift to fourth.

Are you up for a little troubleshooting?

Were you able to shift from first to neutral? If so, could you shift from neutral
back to first? My guess is there is something wrong with the neutral stopper
arm. There is a specially shaped collar on one side and a washer on the other
side of the arm. If either is missing or damaged, the arm could get cocked on
the shift drum under load not allowing any further detents to be selected.

The neutral stopper arm is also connected to the shift fork guide shaft which, as the
name implies, is the shaft the left and right shift forks ride on. You should take the
shaft out and roll it on a known flat surface to make sure it isn't bent. Also, did you
check the tolerances on the guide shaft, gearshift drum, all three gearshift forks? If
any are worn beyond tolerances, they could bind up under load and cause this problem.
Let me know if you need the service limits.

One final thought. The shift drum is spinning with the motor running. If the bearing is
worn, the drum may be spinning off axis and binding up (I don't think this is the case
because you are able to select first gear), but it probably wouldn't hurt to check for any
lateral play in the drum bearing just in case.

Good luck with it and keep us posted.

dogger

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1973 CR250M
1979 CR250R
1993 CR250R
2008 CR500R
2009 CR250R

OKay, good information, and to follow up, the bike would shift from first to nuetral and back to firstwhile running. I could also shift to 3rd, start the bike, then shift thru the rest of the gears, and then down shift all the way down to first with it running, but then the same thing would happen, it wouldnt shift past nuetral to second.

I talked to Elsinorestuff yesterday and he seems like a staight up guy, had a lot of good information on these bikes, I am gonna clean things up a bit and send it off to him. Hopefully have this thing going by early summer. THanks for all the info!

_________________
C Bly

74 CR 250M
74 CRF 175
75 XR 75
77 ProFab Aberg HL500
97 Montesa Cota 315R
2003 CR500 AF
2004 CRF 450

Thanks for the info. That pretty much isolates it to the neutral stopper arm
assembly or shift fork. Should be a relatively easy fix, maybe as easy as a
thrust washer to compensate for some wear.

I know how frustrating this is. I had a CRF that wouldn't start after sitting for
a while. I figured the gas had gone bad and gummed up the carb (I was using
VP U4 which is nasty stuff). So I took the carb apart, cleaned the heck out of
it and rebuilt it with new seals etc. No luck. Did a spark check and got spark.
Thought the gas may have gummed up the head so I tore the top end down,
valves and runners looked good. Did a diagnostic on the ignition box, good
numbers.

Turned out, it had nothing to do with any of the above. I had installed a titanium
bolt kit on the bike and two of those bolts mounted the coil to the frame. Titanium
is a poor conducter so I had a poor ground. I had spark but it was sufficently weak
for the bike to not start. Replaced bolts with steel, bike fires right up

Hope Elsinorestuff has you up and running soon.

dogger

_________________
1973 CR250M
1979 CR250R
1993 CR250R
2008 CR500R
2009 CR250R

Just got my engine back from Elsinorestuff, gonna install this baby just as fast as I can, have had this bike apart for almost 3 years now,

Originally sent the engine to supposedly the best elsinore mechanic in the country, in Georgia, I wont mention his name, and got put on the back burner for over a year and half. Finally got the engine back after having to threaten the guy with legal proceedings ( less the $500 cash upfront ) with nothing done but a few parts removed and I suspect used on other peoples bikes.

Update: Mr. John Astleford has went above and beyond to help me with the problems I had with a mechanic from the Georgia area, I am @ awe with his efforts in helping me collect lost funds. I just want to make sure there is no mistaken identity between John Astleford and the guy mentioned above.

I guess where I am going with this is, If you are considering sending an engine to Elsinorestuff he is a standup reputable guy and knows his stuff. He gave me a time on rebuilding my tranny and he done a stand up job. Fear none if you send your work to this guy

_________________
C Bly

74 CR 250M
74 CRF 175
75 XR 75
77 ProFab Aberg HL500
97 Montesa Cota 315R
2003 CR500 AF
2004 CRF 450

Claude, please give me your tel. no. or a call 770-469-3926. I was under the impression our boy took care of this. John A.

The real question we all want answered: What in the heck was wrong with it?? Thanks, -Mitch

Well, as far as the tranny, Elsinorestuff would have to explain the technical, This is part of an email from him that tells what he used from the 75 tranny,

You are probably at the Mid Ohio events right now but eventually you will
get this. Remember motor has only 300cc of oil. Needs about another 400cc.
Overall this motor is pretty good. Clutch basket not worn much is a sign it
did not get too much use. I used your tranny with the 75 second gear set(2
gears) and the third. Also the second geat shift fork. The second is a
little worn but should last awhile. Usually I like to put the entire 75 or
76 tranny in the 74 cases but yours was too rusty. Save the old gears for
spares. I will warranty the labor for this motor but can't promise how long
the parts will last. When you get it runnin and if you want to keep it for
the long haul keep an eye out for a 76 bottom end. They have the best
possible tranny. I sent it Fed Ex may get to your address as soon as
Monday. Was more than I expected but you sent extra cash so there was
plenty enough to pay the freight. Good luck and let me know how it works.


Again, this guy came thru for me and its certainly appreciated.

John, A. I know you didnt have anything to do with the earlier situation, if you have the means to help me recover my losses, it would be greatly appreciated. I called and left you a message, my # - 918-640-6599.

cbly

_________________
C Bly

74 CR 250M
74 CRF 175
75 XR 75
77 ProFab Aberg HL500
97 Montesa Cota 315R
2003 CR500 AF
2004 CRF 450